“I’ve had the opportunity to have him on my show more than once – I’ve said no every time. I don’t want to help him. I’m not interested in helping him.” That’s what podcast host Joe Rogan said about marginalized former President Trump in 2022. He couldn’t make it clearer that he was “in no way a Trump supporter.”

How times can change. In the two years that followed, Donald Trump would stage the most remarkable political comeback in living memory, soaring past his main competition and brushing aside indictments and assassination attempts to become the successful Republican challenger for the 2024 election.

And Trump knew he needed Rogan. The podcaster, with 15 million subscribers and a roster of A+ guests, had warmed to Trump in the intervening period, even as he maintained the tough but fair assessment of both Republicans and Democrats that brought him widespread popularity. Agnosticism shifted to outright support with an endorsement from Trump on Election Day.

Rogan’s official stamp of approval may have come too late to sway many voters, but his extended three-hour interview with the man he was adamantly against appearing on the show the week before certainly might have done, with over an astonishing 45 million views on YouTube alone.

That Rogan’s views are so interesting is a testament to his continued relevance and popularity. It was strange, then, that Kamala Harris declined the opportunity to appear on the show after Trump, apparently claiming scheduling issues, an unwillingness to fly to Austin, Texas, and a desire to delay the interview to limit one hour – something every Joe Rogan experience does. Superfan would know this amounts to sacrilege.

Don’t let Rogan’s eventual endorsement haunt him retroactively: He expressed qualified admiration for Harris even when speaking to Trump, and was clearly seriously interested in what she had to say. Rogan has happily received Democratic votes before, chatting warmly with Pennsylvania Dem Senator John Fetterman.

Then call it pride. The Harris campaign, aided by Silicon Valley Super PAC Future Forward, spent $700 million on cutting-edge advertising. She has also outspent Trump enormously on ground game operations, with mocking dismissals of Elon Musk’s (admittedly chaotic) contributions.

Frayed by criticism that she avoided the press, she eventually submitted to a few short television interviews. A few highly selective podcast appearances would follow — in retrospect, appearing on “Call Her Daddy” as Hurricane Milton ravaged North Carolina might have been a bad decision — but Rogan was clearly a step too far.

Trump was smart enough to follow Rogan’s star. Credit goes to Alex Bruesewitz, the young Vance staffer who apparently pushed for Trump to take advantage of alternative media networks.

The Joe Rogan listener is not much different from the Donald Trump voter: both are skeptical of the authority of the establishment, hate foreign interventions, are fiercely anti-woke and – as this morning has shown – represent a diverse snapshot of the modern American identity. He cannot be dismissed as a “bro” influencer in the same way as pro-Trump YouTube pranksters the Nelk Boys. As the world wakes up to the election results, it is clear that America is now a Rogan country.