(This contains major spoilers from part two of Outdoor benches season four.)

The one from Netflix Outdoor benches season four started and ended with JJ.

The Pogue-iest of the Pogues, according to the showrunners, Rudy Pankow’s erratic but lovable JJ Maybank set up and ended the fourth season’s main conflict, in which the group of teenage treasure hunters from North Carolina inherit and lose more than a million dollars, digging deep into JJ’s family history and head across the Atlantic Ocean for an epic showdown in Morocco.

In the nearly 90-minute finale episode, released Thursday along with the second half of season four’s 10 episodes, the group raced through the North African desert in an ultimate standoff against the man who turned out to be JJ’s real father to be. In the final moments of the season — now officially the show’s penultimate, following Tuesday’s fifth and final renewal — JJ is stabbed and killed by his newly revealed father.

“It’s been lurking in his DNA from the beginning,” says showrunner Jonas Pate The Hollywood Reporter. “He really is a sympathetic but tragic figure… this is something that was always baked into the cake.”

Fate or not, JJ’s ending is sure to shock the Netflix drama’s fervent online fanbase. “What do you think the fans are going to do – do we need witness protection?” Pate joked Wednesday, ahead of the release of part two of the season.

Below, Jonas Pate joins fellow showrunners Josh Pate and Shannon Burke to reflect on why it always had to be JJ, why it ended up being Morocco, and how exactly that beloved P4L mentality will continue to guide their show moving forward.

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What a season for JJ. Was this something you planned from the beginning?

SHANNON BURKE We knew – we knew at the end of season three that season four would be JJ. We didn’t know everything that was going to happen, but we had a lot of the key story points. We also kind of knew what JJ’s final ending would be – we weren’t sure if it would be played this year, but we pretty much knew.

JOSH PAAT We spotlighted several characters and wanted to delve deeper into his backstory. And a big piece that we developed this year was the idea of ​​the adoptive father, like the big bad guy. We had to repurpose the villains because after the first three seasons, this year was a reset.

Why did he have to die?

JONAS PAAT It’s been lurking in his DNA since the beginning. He really is a tragic figure, and the idea of ​​mortality, and you only have a finite window – it’s also a theme of the show. It’s something John B has been talking about since season one. So believe it or not, this is something that was always in the cake, and we just wanted to tell the story as elegantly and interestingly as possible.

This finale is quite beastly – almost 90 minutes, and all set in Morocco. From a technical perspective, what is it like to pace an episode that will be so much longer than what your audience is used to?

SHANNON BURKE That just happened organically. We didn’t think we were going to make this really long episode. We realized little by little that the script was getting longer and longer, and we just wanted to honor the story. Initially we had a shorter version, but it didn’t take into account what was going to happen. We realized we had to slow it down, so it’s more of a bit-by-bit thing.

JONAS PAAT You also post it. We knew this one was long, but you get in the mail and then it was a lot longer than we expected, and you keep it from there.

Was there any pushback from Netflix?

JONAS PAAT I think they knew we had to land a lot of planes, it would probably take a long time. Netflix is ​​an exceptional partner in making the story what needs to be told. I think they’ve shown that with a lot of their shows, for example Stranger things.

Let’s talk about the trip to Morocco. These Pogues have now been all over the world. What directed you there this time?

JONAS PAAT There’s a lot involved. Some of it is driven by the story, some of it is driven by what we think will be cinematic, some of it is driven by financial concerns. But the story is number one.

JOSH PAAT It was almost like Pogue’s hell. It’s a desert! The anti-Pogue environment. Because we knew what was going to happen to JJ, I thought, “Wow, this is perfect.” Because it’s literally the last place they want to be. They are so beachy and water based.

That’s true, Poguelandia isn’t. Did that play a role in your specific set design or location scouting?

JOSH PAAT We knew absolutely that the end point would be in the desert, in the Sahara, in a place very different from what they know and love. (The city) where we shot the finale (where the Pogues embark on multiple chase scenes through the dusty streets), we basically had to rewrite the entire script when we were in Morocco for that new location because Jonas was so excited about what that we could do in one of those clay towns on the hills. So that was all rewired based on location.

Let’s talk about the rest of the Pogues. This show feels different from other teen adventures as all the main couples tend to stay together. Was that a conscious choice for you?

SHANNON BURKE I think that’s how we like these characters. We don’t want them to have low motives or be petty. We don’t like it when they do bad things, and we like it when they are good to each other.

JONAS PAAT And we wanted to honor P4L. I mean, that’s basically what this is about. We wanted to give them external problems, but not so many external problems.

Sarah Cameron is pregnant!

JONAS PAAT We didn’t want John B and Sarah to have the usual divorce architecture of a YA couple, but we also needed them to cope (conflict). And there’s always that accusation you get when you have an interesting idea and you’re almost afraid of it. The first few times we discussed that idea, it was like, “Oh my God, we can’t do that!” But those are often the ideas that haunt you. It gets the engine started.

Who decided to call it a ‘poguelet’?

JOSH PAAT I think Carlacia (Grant, who plays Cleo) said it was so funny on set.

That’s great. My final question for you: these characters have grown and evolved so much, but they’re still so young. Is there a balance between the adventure of the show and the age of your characters?

JOSH PAAT I would say that many of their boundaries are (based on) our memories of our teenage years, which come from spending time in the coastal areas of Carolina. The original concept of Kooks and Pogues was based on groups that we knew, and I just think about those groups and what their boundaries would be and what kinds of things happened.

JONAS PAAT We had friends in high school who got pregnant. We just felt like it was real.

JOSH PAAT It would be something that could happen to them so easily. But we want to honor the pickle it presents to them and stay true to the characters.

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Parts one and two of Outdoor benches season four is now streaming on Netflix.