Christian nationalist activist and right-wing commentator Charlie Kirk yesterday interviewed evangelical pollster George Barna on his podcast about the upcoming presidential election and was deeply concerned about what Barna had to say.

Barna, a senior fellow at the Family Research Council’s Center for Biblical Worldview, specializes in studying what he calls “SAGE Cons” — spiritually active government-engaged conservative Christians — who have traditionally formed the basis of the religious right movement.

According to Barna’s latest survey, overall enthusiasm about voting in the 2024 election has declined, but it is still significantly lower among Christians who are expected to support Trump if they vote. Tens of millions of Christians, Barna said, simply don’t care about politics or hate the candidates and therefore have no intention of voting.

“In the last election, about 61 percent of eligible adults turned out,” Barna said. “We predict that this percentage will drop from 61 to somewhere between 53 and 55 percent in this election.”

“Are Evangelicals Down More Than Other Voters?” Kirk wondered. “Because if the enthusiasm of evangelicals, like the general population, wanes, will it basically be a wash?”

“That would be the best-case scenario right now,” Barna replied. “What we’re seeing now is that people who are committed Christians – biblical Christians, disciples of Jesus, evangelicals, SAGE Cons, the spiritually active board, are engaging with conservative Christians – whichever of those segments you want to look at, what we’re looking at The conclusion is that enthusiasm about these elections decreases by 10 to 25 percentage points.”

“If it was a wash, I wouldn’t be so concerned,” Barna added. “That’s not the case. We’re descending at a higher level and that’s what raises the alarm.”

“If your numbers stay the same and there is no improvement and there is no surge of enthusiasm, is it fair to say that stay-at-home Christians will hand the White House to Kamala Harris?” Kirk asked.

“Yes,” Barna replied. “I believe that’s exactly what’s going to happen.”

“George Barna isn’t just some rando we’re setting up here,” Kirk warned. “This man has been doing it for forty years. …How often do we have to emphasize that there are issues that define civilization? If we lose, it will be largely because pastors and Christians arrogantly tell God, “We don’t care. We are more religious than Donald Trump. ”

“I hope they enjoy the gulags,” Kirk concluded.